Dutch plow

[Corneel]

With all these brilliant British planes lately I decided to post some pictures of my latest aquisition. An old Dutch plow plane. "Veerploeg" we say in Dutch. It wasn't cheap, I didn't find it early morning on a muddy field behind the defunct toasters. I paid big bucks for it. But it will probably be the closest I will ever get to one of these fabulous 17th and 18th century, hand carved and very expensive Dutch planes.

It's a rather late model from 1847. No makers stamp alas. It's nice to see there where still a few dedicated planemakers around who made these beautifull pieces. Apart from the iron, which doesn't fit at all, the plane is complete. The fence is nicely decorated, and the stock also has some nice decorative beads. An iron skate and an iron wear plate on the fence. The two spurs are atached to the stock with a single wooden pin. The fence has iron stirrups inside, which are tightened up against the spurs with these big nuts.

All in all it looks a bit crude, apart from the wood carvings. But it's a solid piece. I hope to find a better iron and see if it also works as nicely.

Enjoy.

 

[Richard T]

Drool ...

What is the iron like? And what would be a better iron?
I have a strong suspicion that there might be a collection of chaps around here who may be able to help.

 

[jimi43]

Oh....that is lovely!

It is very nice to see how these things evolved to solve a problem just a few miles away over the Channel in such a different way. The history of tool evolution is one of my favourite subjects and why I am in my element with these wooden ones...I just don't know why it took me so very long to appreciate them.

It seems to be a trait of the European makers...and craftsmen to decorate the tools with fine scrolls and especially dates. This hardly ever occurs in British examples...I wonder why?

As Richard says...there are a number of us who would gladly assist you in getting an iron made for this beauty. Just the research to do so would be payment enough for me. It would seem that they design differs entirely from the traditional British plough plane. Can you assist us with what would be correct and we can see what's involved.

Thanks for posting this great example of the toolmaker's art...and don't worry...I think I would have paid top dollar for that one...and that IS saying something!! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Corneel]

Yes, nice all these differences from one country to another. The German ones are completely different again.

The iron is in fact just like the English ones. Just the upper part that goes through the stock isn't so wide, but more narrow like a (thick) molding plane iron. I think someone tried to grind an English type to suit this plane, but he did it very badly. The groove at the back isn't straight in the middle anymore, but it is now skewed running from left to right. No wonder it doesn't fit.

I'll get some measurements tomorrow. But now I'm going to sleep :ho2

 

[TobyC]

"Veerploeg" we say in Dutch

I thought it was 'Nederlands', instead of Dutch!

Very nice. It's hard to say what a 'good' price on something like that would be. Can you show us the bottom?

Toby

 

[Corneel]

Early this morning I took some measurements. This plow is designed for just one size of blade. The skate is very close to the inner side of the escapement.

From the inner wall of the escapement to the skate is just 2mm. Then the skate itself is 2mm thick. And then it's about 4mm to the outer wall of the escapement. My meassurements aren't too precise! My guess is that the blade has been 1/4". In width it has been a straight blade all the way to the top. The blade probably has been tapered in thickness, but not a whole lot. The back of the blade has a groove, just like the Englisg ones.

Has there ever been a Britisch plane blade like that? maybe in one of the simpler grooving planes.

Tonight I'll shoot a picture form the underside Toby.

 

[AndyT]

Beautiful! I can see why you bought it!

It's fascinating to see further proof that there is no limit to the number of different ways to hold a sharp edge in a block of wood.

I especially like the little carved spirals and the way the mouldings on the stock are continued across the ends.

There are so many little differences though. Presumably the cross-arms are fixed in the stock by the dowels whose tops can be seen. But if so, there will always be some spare length to the right of the stock - which must be used for holding it. Is that part of the natural grip? That's another odd thing about ploughs in general - except for those uncommon ones with proper saw-style handles, there is often nothing at all to make them conform to the hand.

It's possible that an iron from a fixed grooving plane would be suitable, but let's wait for the other photos.

 

[Corneel]

Yes the crossbars where used to hold on to, but being square, that can't have been too comfy.

 

[Corneel]

It looks like the seller still has some blades in stock. So I'll wait what he can offer me.

 

[AndyT]

That reminds me - I'd not looked at Ducotools for a while - they offer antique tools from the UK and other European countries and their website is in English as well as in Dutch.

Tools like this German plough for €40:

or this French one for €55:

or this "Plettenberg" plough for €200

- just in case anyone is feeling flush and is easily tempted!!

(And where else are you going to get an eighteenth century eel spear?!)

 

[Racers]

Hi, Chaps

Isn't it facinating how tools with the same function look so different, I would have expected the best parts of the designs to have migrated across and planes to have become more uniform.

Pete

 

[Corneel]

And here's a picture of the underside, the mouth area.

As you can see, the groove in the iron is in the wrong spot, and there is not much room for a wide iron.

Further it's in pretty good nick for a 165 year old plane.

Tomorrow I'm leaving on holliday, so the project is put on hold for a while (4 weeks to south east Asia, yeah!)

 

[Corneel]

Well, I had to kick this topic again, because I am still looking for an iron. The seller of the plane gave me another iron, but it is the Britisch type which is wide at the top and then 1/4" at the working end. Of course I could grind the wide part. But this iron happens to fit very nicely in my Moseley plow plane which doesnt have a 1/4"'in its set. So I would rather look around for the right iron for this Dutch plow.

So I am looking for a tapered plow plane iron, with a groove at the back to fit the skate. It should be 1/4" all the way from the top to the bottom (more or less of course, a little bit of tapering wouldn't harm the plane).

If somebody in the UK could find such an iron and send it over the Northsea, I would be very gratefull. All costs are mine of course.

 

[MickCheese]

Have you had a look on eBay?

There are some plough plane blade sets, one is only £5.00 for 14 blades, cannot see if or by how much they are tapered though.

If you do find anything that is suitable and need someone in the UK to bid and send on then I would be happy to do that for you, as I am sure others would too.

Good luck.

Mick

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Corneel.
It might be easier for some one to find the correct shape of iron kicking around if you could take a picture of it with a ruler next to it. I wonder if the damaged iron is the original iron? Could a blacksmith repair it?

Toby.
The language is called Dutch, the country is called 'The Netherlands'. Sometimes people get confused by the fruit and veg boxes and on Edam cheese that have 'Holland' on them and think that is an alternative name for 'The Netherlands' but it is the name of the province in the Netherlands that produces this stuff.

Another translation for a 'veerploeg' I found was 'tonguing plane' which would suggest that tonguing board edges was the main use for a plane like this.
Corneel do you think that the original users back in 1847 cut a tongue and groove in three stages with this plane? Or did they make lap joints along the edges of the boards? Or does this plane have a twin?

Gerard

 

[Corneel]

As far as I know this is just a plow plane (a veerploeg in Dutch) with one cutter. Most grooves in cabinetry are 1/4". When they wanted a wider groove, they would cut several grooves side by side. Very wide grooves: just two grooves at the outer edges and then removing the wood in the middle with a chisel. For tongue and groove you had special planes with fixed fences. That is much faster then having to reset the fence all the time and cutting the tongue in two stages.

I will make some pictures tonight. That will make clear what I mean.

 

[Corneel]

Here you can see what I mean. These irons come from other planes and don't fit my ancient Dutch plow.

The top one is the typical Britisch type. You find these in sets. At the required 1/4" width they are always much wider at the top.

The bottom one is what I am looking for. This one comes from a simple fixed fence groovingplane, maybe part of a tongue and groove set. This one is too wide. I'm looking for a similar one in 1/4".

Hopefully someone finds an iron like this.